Talk:Flemish people

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Flemings speak Dutch, really?[edit]

I have found this statement once in the lede and once in the article and I cannot agree with it. While dutch - or rather Flemish - is the main spoken language this does not mean that that it is the sole language. There have always been - and there are still - French speaking minorities on the territory of the Flemish Region, in particular in Ghent. For many centuries the Flemish elites were used to speak French while common people spoke Flemish. Therefore stating that Flemings speak Dutch is a generalisation who does not correspond to the reality or give the wrong impression that you cannot be Fleming if you are speaking something else than Flemish. --Lebob (talk) 12:01, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

At this time and age, I believe many Flemings would argue that the Dutch language is an intrinsical part of their identity. Someone living in Flanders not speaking Dutch would likely not be considered an ethnic Fleming, be it rightly or wrongly. In my view, this makes the Flemish identity different from some/many other ethnic identities which put less emphasis on language in their identity. I am happy to be convinced otherwise though if credible sources are used. Morgengave (talk) 20:22, 9 November 2014 (UTC)
So this means that the people who live in the French side what is still Flanders are not Flemish anymore because they usually speak French and not Flemish? --Lebob (talk) 07:41, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
Fact is that nowadays there is (afaik; and I would be glad to be proven wrong) very little shared identity between the French Flemish and the contemporary Flemish (as in: "northern Belgians"). So, to the extent that the French Flemish still identify as Flemish, it can certainly be noted that the vast majority of them speak French nowadays, but in my opinion that should be noted as a separate explanation due to the reason I just gave. Same goes for the historical use of French by upper class Flemings: it can be noted but does not change the fact that Dutch is nowadays the lingua franca, with French probably even being less spoken than e.g. Turkish. SPQRobin (talk) 12:30, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

The propaganda that Flemings (the far greater share of the Belgium population) speak "Flemish" and not Dutch is an old Francophone imperialist tool to belittle and lessen the standing and rights of the majority of Belgiums. — Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:{{{1}}}|{{{1}}}]] ([[User talk:{{{1}}}|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/{{{1}}}|contribs]])

Nobody is claiming that Belgian Dutch is Flemish (which exists but only as a family of dialects of Dutch, just like the Netherlands hosts several families of Dutch dialects), as nobody is claiming either that Belgian French should be called Walloon. Arnoutf (talk) 17:07, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

To clearify this old discussion for those who still read this: frist of all, flemish is not a language, it is the collectieve term for all Dutch dialects spoken in Flanders. Secondly: In Belgium, those who speak French are never considered Flemish, in France in the former departement of Nord-pas de Calais, this is different, there there are ethnical flemings who speak French and identify themselves still as being flemish. Falco iron (talk) 14:59, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

Do you have any reliable sources for this assertion. Note, also, that I've reverted this edit as being a) unsourced; b) redundant. Wikipedia is built on reliable sources, not anyone's personal opinion. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 19:51, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

Misleading wording: "French-dialect speaking population" (the historic Belgium Romance tungs are not French offshoots)[edit]

Would it not be more truthful to say somesuch as:


'Romance-dialect speaking population'


or haps:


'Walloon-dialect speaking population'


Ironic the historic NWO/Francophone imperialist agenda not to call the Flemish tung (what it is) Dutch, when in truth, it is the sundry Romance tungs that should be asundered from French as they are NOT dialects thereof. Belgium folk (not speaking Dutch/Flemish or German) do not speak a dialect of French. The Romance pidjins of Belgium are self-rooting tungs. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.104.162.35 (talk) 01:12, 27 December 2017 (UTC)

An seemingly important big chunk of text needs rewriting...[edit]

Seems important. Shame it is hard to follow...

"In 1830 the southern provinces of the United Netherlands proclaimed their independence. French-dialect speaking population, as well as the administration and elites, feared the loss of their status and autonomy under Dutch rule while the rapid industrialization in the south highlighted economic differences between the two. Under French rule (1794–1815), French was enforced as the only official language in public life, resulting in a Frenchification of the elites and, to a lesser extent, the middle classes. The Dutch King allowed the use of both Dutch and French dialects as administrative languages in the Flemish provinces. He also enacted laws to reestablish Dutch in schools.[8] The language policy was not the only cause of the secession; the Roman Catholic majority viewed the sovereign, the Protestant William I, with suspicion and were heavily stirred by the Roman Catholic Church which suspected William of wanting to enforce Protestantism. Lastly, Belgian liberals were dissatisfied with William for his allegedly despotic behaviour.[citation needed]

Following the revolt, the language reforms of 1823 were the first Dutch laws to be abolished and the subsequent years would see a number of laws restricting the use of the Dutch language.[9] This policy led to the gradual emergence of the Flemish Movement, that was built on earlier anti-French feelings of injustice, as expressed in writings (for example by the late 18th-century writer, Jan Verlooy) which criticized the Southern Francophile elites. The efforts of this movement during the following 150 years, have to no small extent facilitated the creation of the de jure social, political and linguistic equality of Dutch from the end of the 19th century.[citation needed]" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.104.162.35 (talk) 01:36, 27 December 2017 (UTC)

Word “the” treaty without referent[edit]

“The modern Belgian province of Limburg was not part of the treaty” (fist paragraph under History)… but no treaty to be found in the text above. (In fact, no other occurrence of treaty in the page.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by DominiqueM (talkcontribs) 10:57, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

A word of thanks[edit]

I wish to thank Iryna Harpy and DisillusionedBitterAndKnackered among others for their contributions. In no way did I wish to start an edit war! My edits really were intended in good faith. Of course edits should go to the talk page, and I will do so in future. I was quite surprised that my ISP was changing my address so frequently. I hardly ever reboot my router and yet I see several different addresses on my edits. Very best regards to you all!— Preceding unsigned comment added by 2a02:1811:429:f200:ad9c:54ff:4e85:4496 (talk) 23:43, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

French[edit]

Flemish people do not speak French as a native language. I am flemish myselve and I actualy can speak a bit of French beacause I learened it as a foreign language at school. There is no part of Flanders where French is nativly spoken, it is an official language in the Brussels capital region along with Dutch but Brussels isn’t a part of Flanders anymore and the native language spoken in Brussels used to be a Brabantian dialect of Dutch. Furthermore, Dutch is the sole official language of the Flemish comunity. Therefore, I have tried to edid the mistake in this article twice, but everytime I do someone reverted my edid. Due to this I opened this New talk page. I hope this way I can provide a sufficient argumentation to convince everyone. Falco iron (talk) 19:28, 1 March 2018 (UTC)

People in Brussels who don't speak Flemish natively cannot be ethnically Flemish? Sounds like some kind of ethnolinguist nationalist POV. You say Brussels is not part of Flanders any longer, but Flanders is a cultural region, not just administrative. I can't understand how you can argue people with Flemish ancestry living in Brussels who speak French are not Flemish plainly because of the language they speak. I don't see how they are any less Flemish then say French-speaking ethnic Luxembourgers are Luxembourgian. Rob984 (talk) 17:06, 21 July 2018 (UTC)